How would you like to be known for the next 2,000 years as “doubting Thomas?” Tradition has it that the guy preached the gospel for the rest of his life until he was speared to death in India. The only thanks he gets for his contribution to the Lord’s kingdom is for everyone to refer to his name derogatorily.
Thomas gets a bad rap…but Thomas is actually one of the apostles whom I respect the most. I think we should give him a break. I think we should give all of the “Thomases” out there a break because things may not always be as they seem. People overlook the fact that this same Thomas was the one that said to his fellow apostles, “Let us also go, that we may die with him” in the face of being stoned to death for being with Christ. (John 11:16)
But Thomas didn’t become famous for that kind of bravery and loyalty. Instead, he became famous for his exchange with some of the other apostles when he said, “Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25)
All of the apostles were confused at the things the Savior taught. Their Jewish upbringing and understanding of the Messiah was not one that had Him hanging on a cross. They all believed He would liberate them from the Romans and from any of their oppressors. Not just die. So when he died…all of them had their faith obliterated. There was a twist in their faith that no one could explain at the current moment…but in time, it all was made clear.
Thomas was really no different than the rest of the apostles. Remember when the faithful women told the apostles that the tomb was empty and that the resurrection was a success? The scripture says that “Their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.”(Luke 24:11) This was all of the apostles, not just Thomas. Thomas just verbalized what everyone else was thinking. So it kind of stinks to have a 2,000 plus year stigma on you for just saying what was on your mind.
The interesting thing to consider is that there was nothing malicious about any of the apostles doubts. They truly wanted to believe…but were just having a hard time.
There is a difference between malicious disbelief and honest disbelief. Some people that disbelieve hate the things they used to believe in and hate that anyone else would believe in such things. That’s why they become such ardent persecutors of those that continue to believe. But someone with an honest disbelief stays humble and open to whatever might happen next. The person that has doubts, but a hopeful and believing heart says, “help thou mine unbelief.” They continue to have hope, and they continue to exercise faith, which is what brought Thomas and the other apostles into that gathering in which Thomas was able to actually “feel the wounds in His hands and in His feet.”
Thomas…and the rest of the apostles for that matter were in honest disbelief at the time. Thomas said he needed to “see to believe” but he still wanted to believe. He had no animosity in his heart. He loved the Savior. He loved the Church. He loved how he felt as he lived and breathed the gospel. But he had a little bit of doubt in his heart like so many of us do.
[adinserter block=1]The bottom line is that the apostles didn’t “know” if Christ was ever coming back. Even though He told them Himself that he would, they still had doubts. They “knew” a lot of other things. They knew they loved His teachings and they knew he performed many miracles…but there were still holes in their testimony that needed to be filled by future events on a later date. If the 11 remaining apostles held a testimony meeting on day 2 of Christ being in the tomb, none of them would have testified that they “knew” Christ was going to rise tomorrow. But it doesn’t mean they were giving up on Him.
They just didn’t know…
And that’s alright. If there are things you don’t “know”…then it’s sufficient to just have a belief. “Belief is a precious word” says Elder Holland. “An even more precious act, and [we] need never apologize for “only believing.” Christ Himself said, “Be not afraid, only believe.” (Jeffrey R. Holland, Lord, I Believe, April 2013 General Conference)
We all have a little bit of Thomas in us if we’re being honest with ourselves. So take it easy on the Thomas’s out there. They might just be the next Paul…or Alma…or Amulek.
Hello Greg.
I haven’t heard back from you on my offer to have a polite conversation about the plan of salvation as taught in the Book of Mormon and how you reconcile that with your testimony that the Book of Mormon is true.
I would still love to engage with you and find out how you approach this question.
You can tell me no.
I won’t assume you are just fearful of the conversation. I know you are a busy guy.
But it would be nice if I could get a response from you either way.
Thanks and all the best.
James…happy to. Send me the questions that you have and I’d be happy to respond. Thanks a lot!
Thanks Greg.
How do you reconcile the difference in the plan of salvation taught in the Book of Mormon as compared to the plan of salvation taught in D&C 76 and in all current LDS manuals?
Specifically, please consider what the Book of Mormon teaches that happens to people after the judgment and resurrection and where they end up.
The two sources teach different versions of the plan that are in opposition.
I would be interested to hear how you reconcile them, especially in light of your testimony that the Book of Mormon is true.
The follow up question would be, can the Book of Mormon be true, in your mind, while teaching a false plan of salvation?
Thanks.
James –
Can you send me the portions of the BoM and Section 76 that are in opposition?
Thanks,
Greg
Is this issue new to you?
That depends on what issue it is… did you want to send me what exactly you’re referring to so that I can see if the issue you are having is an issue I am aware of?
The issue is that the Book of Mormon teaches everyone goes to hell except those who accept Christ and endure to the end.
D&C 76 teaches that those who accept Christ and endure to the end go to heaven (celestial kingdom), those who accepted christ but weren’t faithful to the terrestrial kingdom and the wicked/murderers, to the telestial kingdom. All to some level of glory, except the sons of perdition.
Here is a quote:
Mosiah 16: 10 Even this mortal shall put on immortality, and this corruption shall put on incorruption, and shall be brought to stand before the bar of God, to be judged of him according to their works whether they be good or whether they be evil—
11 If they be good, to the resurrection of endless life and happiness; and if they be evil, to the resurrection of endless damnation, being delivered up to the devil, who hath subjected them, which is damnation—
Here is a quote from a book in the BYU archives:
The Book of Mormon does not teach the doctrinal truth that hell will end for the majority of those who suffer in the spirit prison prior to being resurrected and entering the telestial kingdom; however, this truth is clearly taught in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 76:36–38, 106).
Totally makes sense… Does it not to you? Verse 11 doesn’t elaborate on the degrees of glory. You are either going to be resurrected to a state of happiness to one degree or another, or you’ll be resurrected and sent to outer darkness. Just because Abinidi didn’t know of or expound upon the degrees of glory…while he was about to be burned at the stake…doesn’t mean it’s contradictory to what JS taught.
There are essentially two types of resurrection placements. A place that is eternally happy or a place that is eternally sad. I don’t see the contradiction.
So the devil is in the telestial kingdom?
Given that abinidi says that those who are evil and go to the resurrection of endless damnation will be delivered up to the devil, how do you gloss over that?
I guess it just depends on who is defining evil. I would say that would be up to God when the time comes.
But there is a more interesting issue that comes up in your questioning. I’m assuming you are not a member of the church, (correct me if I’m wrong). You have taken issue with my belief in the Book of Mormon. So my question to you is, where did the book come from? If you say Joseph Smith wrote it or plagiarized it then he would have had to of been very familiar with the material. Cynical scribes and witnesses say that he dictated it from out of a hat. I don’t believe there is any way he could have made it up on the fly…so he would have had to had it memorized after having previously concocted it in order to dictate from a hat.
So…If you believe either of those methods, he would have had to have been insanely familiar with the material. If he was that smart…and simultaneously evil enough to do such a thing… would he have made up section 76 to be in opposition to a position he supposed laid out in the Book of Mormon?
Greg.
No harm no foul. If you don’t think this topic is interesting and you see it differently, we don’t need to talk about it.
I have taken the study of the Book of Mormon very seriously and have studied every major sermon by the prophets in great detail to gain a firm understanding of what is the fullness of the gospel within its pages.
I have read it dozens of times in my life and 7 times just in the past 4 years.
I don’t have an agenda other than to know what is.
What does the Book say for itself without me having to put my own “spin” upon it.
I would challenge you to write out the plan of salvation for yourself, just using scriptures from the Book of Mormon. Maybe that could provide some insights to you.
Also study D&C 19. God admits to having kept it secret that hell would end and only let this mystery to be known to his apostles, until he revealed it in D&C 19. And even then he told Martin Harris (the person to whom the revelation was directed) to not tell anyone.
Obviously a few years later Joseph received D&C 76 and so the mystery was revealed to everyone by then.
Good luck.
If you ever want to share what you have discovered in your studies, I would love to hear it.
All the best.
I can’t see the contradiction. They are just different perspectives according to the knowledge of the people of the times from which they wrote. I don’t know what Abinidi knew…or what Alma (Younger) knew (Another big Plan of Salvation write).
No Book of Mormon scripture talks about the 3 degrees of glory which I’m sure you’re aware of…
Your comment about “It kind of feels like you are making up your position based upon your feelings as opposed to a study of the scriptures” is just unsubstantiated. You don’t know how much I’ve studied in the same way I don’t know how much you’ve studied the scriptures.
I don’t know what position you’d like me to try and justify and I can’t really say more than I’ve already said in previous responses…
The position I would like to hear your justification is from this quote you made:
“There are essentially two types of resurrection placements. A place that is eternally happy or a place that is eternally sad. I don’t see the contradiction.”
You placed everyone in the happy one, including murderers, the wicked, apostates, the lazy, and also those who accepted christ and endured to the end.
Only sons of perdition would go to hell.
I can’t find any Book of Mormon scriptures that justify this position.
But I am open to learning. Please help me understand your position.