Mormons Have the Most Liberal Theology in the World

Depending on whether or not you are familiar with the LDS Church, you may have been shocked by the title of this blog entry. Mormons… liberal?! Except for Harry Reid, “liberal” is not usually a word that is used to describe Mormons or their theology. Many look at members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as ultra conservative, exclusive, and secretive. As a missionary, I had many people exhibit anger toward me saying that “Mormons believe that they are the only ones that will be saved”. In reality, that statement could not be farther from the truth. Let me explain…

With the exception of a few very evil people called the son’s of perdition, Mormons believe that every single human being will be saved. They espouse the words of Paul to the Corinthians when he said “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.” 1Cor 15:22

That means bad people, good people, and indifferent people will be saved to one degree or another. When I say, “to one degree or another”, I mean “one degree or another.” Mormons believe that we are all no doubt “judged according to our works” Rev 20:12  and based on that judgement, we’ll be sent to a place that God has prepared for us. Jesus spoke of this when he said that there were many mansions in heaven and that he’s preparing a place for us. John 14:2  Paul described those varying degrees of glory as the glory of the moon, the stars, and the sun, 1 Cor 15:40-42 and talked about a man he knew in Christ that was caught up to a “third” heaven. 2 Cor 12:2-4

Mormons don’t believe in the classic mainstream belief in one heaven and one hell. They have the most liberal theology on salvation of any religion. They don’t believe that if Johnny committed one more sin than Cyndi and both were on the dividing line between heaven and hell that Johnny is eternally cast off and Cyndi enjoys eternal bliss.  Mormons believe that even those that don’t confess the name of Christ will be saved. Crazy huh. Even those wayward children of bishops that went to Church their whole life but decided to turn away from the Church and from Christ. Saved. Even more crazy huh! They will be “saved”, but yet will need to suffer for their own sins making the Atonement of Christ ineffective in their lives. How about the heathen that grew up never ever hearing the name “Jesus Christ”? Damned? No! Saved! Yes! Why? Because Christ’s resurrection is universal. What about Christ saying that you must confess His name and be baptized to be saved? The heathen didn’t do either. 1 Cor 15:29, 1 Pet 4:6, 1 Pet 3:18-19 all answer that question and it’s explained here.

Greg Trimble Missionary

Mormons by and large are striving to attain the “glory of the sun”, or the “third” heaven spoken of by Paul. In doing so, they claim no exclusivity on this degree of glory. They want all to be there…which is why they zealously trade in their baseball bats, surfboards, and scholarships for a nerdy little helmet and a mountain bike. However, if someone chooses not to worry about it, Mormons believe that Christ “has prepared a place” for them also and they will be comfortable and happy about it. In fact, it will be glorious.

The LDS prophet Joseph Smith is quoted as saying, “Our heavenly Father is more liberal in His views, and boundless in His mercies and blessings, than we are ready to believe or receive”.

This is actually one of the most exciting things about the religion and yet the most misunderstood. No other religion that I have ever studied (and I’ve studied a few) is as liberal with salvation as is the Mormon Church which seems really weird when you think about it. No one will probably believe this when they read it but it’s true…and cool.

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183 thoughts on “Mormons Have the Most Liberal Theology in the World

  1. Nita

    Thanks for the explanation. I couldn’t have done it as well, but that’s the same way I understand our doctrine. And I LOVE it.

    • Elizabeth

      While the Telestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms will be far beyond the wonders of anything we can imagine, it’s still a form of Hell in that those who reside there are forever denied the presence of Heavenly Father.

      I think of it this way: If you were, literally, starving and somebody gives you all the perfectly made PB&J you can eat, compared to starving to death, it’s amazing, but when you realize that you could have had a buffet of (insert favorite foods here), it kind of sucks.

      • Chris

        This is all frequently confused because there is more than one definition for hell. The same can be said of heaven, damnation and salvation. In the original languages there were often more than one word, but the study of these words can lead to even more confusion as over the course of translation and transcription, many of them were used interchangeably when they likely were not meant to be. The glories that are compared to the stars and moon, given the prefix “tele” to convey a sense of distance and “terre” to form an association in mind with earth, are heaven because they are a degree of glory. They are hell because they represent an end to progression.

      • Ramiro Asturias

        It seems that your Agnostic friend has yet to study the Presbiterian Mother Church (with headquarters in Boston, Mass.), which does believe in: nothing less tan “Universal salvation”! It sounds a little devilish, for eventually, Our Heavenly Father would have to forgive even his other son of Dawn, an idea which autor Geovani Papini explored in his novel “The Devil”. RAM

        • Chris

          The only sentence that I worry about in this post is the claim that “No other religion that I have ever studied (and I’ve studied a few) is as liberal with salvation as is the Mormon Church” though because of the qualifier “that I have ever studied” it may be true. There are many religions that believe everyone will be saved, and I’ve come across many that claim that you don’t have to do anything to receive that salvation, including acknowledging Christ as Saviour. That being said, the LDS Church is very liberal with salvation while still being in balance. In essence, everyone will be saved, but will still be held responsible for that acknowledgement, and how comprehensive that acknowledgement was. Thus agency is not destroyed (which is what abolishing all personal responsibility would do) but almost everyone is still saved.

  2. Cassie

    You said “They will be “saved”, but yet will need to pay the price for their own sins making the Atonement of Christ ineffective in their lives.” Do you mean “effective”? This is confusing to me, because aren’t we only saved because of the fact that Christ atoned for us, making it possible to repent and return to Him. I don’t think we are capable of paying for our own sins. I could be wrong though. I enjoyed your post very much, I share the same sentiments.

    • greg

      Great question Cassie. If people refuse to repent, the Lord will not apply his sacrifice to us in order to cover our sins. We will still be resurrected and “saved” in the sense that we are saved from physical death but we will suffer a spiritual death because of sin. Hebrews 10:26 is a good New Testament reference for this and Doctrine & Covenants 19:15-19 gives an even better explanation.

      • Ray

        Be careful when you use the phrase “spiritual death.” Hebrews 10:26 does speak to spiritual death, in that it describes the effect (or none effect) of the atonement on those who have “received the knowledge of the truth” and sinned willfully. Paul is speaking to the denial of the Holy Ghost, which is an unpardonable sin. In D&C 19 the Savior Himself pleads for us to repent and beautifully describes the effects of the pain for not repenting. In other words, we will suffer for sins we do not repent of, but the atonement will still have effect. D&C 19 does not address our “reward” after suffering for sin, but it does not exclude the effects of the atonement like Paul states in Hebrews 10:26.

        • Chris

          Once again, spiritual death has more than one meaning. There is a permanent one, suffered by the Devil and his angles, and there is a temporary one, which we all go through. Almost always we are referring to the latter, we generally specify if we are referring to the former.

      • frgough

        Not quite doctrinally accurate. Yes, those who inherit the telestial kingdom must pay the price for their own sins, but without the atonement of Christ, even that would be insufficient to inherit the kingdom. Even those in the telestial kingdom are there because of Christ’s atonement, because after they have suffered, Christ declares: “it is enough.” That statement is only possible because of the atonement. Those who are truly outside the atonement are those who dwell in outer darkness.

        • Wilkerson

          I feel like most people really only look at the superficial meaning of the Atonement. Most people look at as grace or repentance. grace is basically the part where we are all saved and resurrected and given a glory(God shows his love for everyone). Repentance is where we use our agency and can receive the full outpouring of the blessings Our Father wishes to bestow upon us. So God is still God, because he can show both his mercy through grace and his justice through repentance. I love the Atonement! could talk all day!

        • dw

          No where in the scriptures does it say that man can pay the price for his own sins. Those who do not repent must suffer, but suffering does not equate to paying the price for your sins. We all suffer as a consequence of having sinned, and we suffer until we repent, at which time the atonement takes effect and pays the price. No amount of my suffering can ever pay the price for my sins. Otherwise, why do we need a savior? We would all just suffer, pay the price, and work out our own salvation without any help.

  3. Suzanne

    It’s not cool. This theology proposes to bring families together but really it tears families apart. It’s sad. Lets not forget the highest kingdom is awarded only to those who are baptized, receive ordinances in the temple and are sealed in the temple. Do all that and “do good works”, repent and everything else on the list – only that will get you the reward of having your family “together forever.” Fall short and yes you get heaven but no – you don’t get your family. So – for those of us who don’t fit the proposed idea of how to obtain the celestial kingdom – we get to have “glorious” non-family heaven and hope they visit occasionally.

    • James

      So what you’re saying is you don’t believe the Mormon theology, but your peeved because you don’t live the Mormon standards for the Celestial Kingdom you are told you won’t get to live with your family forever? If you don’t believe it, why does it bother you so much?

      Why don’t you just live by your convictions and let God take care of the rest? Unless of course what you want your convictions to be, really aren’t your convictions after all.

      • David Post

        I think you missed the point of her comment, and I’m not sure where exactly your anger is coming from with her pointing out this problem. You see, although they purport that there are varying degrees of glory (7 if you include outer darkness) but that the only one that really resembles heaven would be the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom, all the others don’t really hold a candle to it.

        This is sold on the basis that everyone wants to be with their family in heaven and that it wouldn’t really be heaven without their family. If that is so then what really is the Terrestial kingdom? Or the Telestial kingdom? Not exactly the place you want to end up, eternally isolated from everyone else. I know some who would rather just be with their friends for eternity, would that be allowed?

        The author, Greg, can continue to taut this all he wants as being liberal, but what this really ends up being is one heaven and 6 hells, just to varying degrees of dimness.

        • Caleb

          By ‘liberal’ he is saying we don’t believe in the coercion of the rest of God’s children. We believe (and God clearly does too) in the power of choice, or agency. Just like we believe in this agency, we are aware of the consequences. How can anyone deny that all actions produce consequence? Your disagreement with Mormonism (at least according to my translation of your comment) is in the consequences of choice. The author is stating how much we believe in the power of choice, and how even when children make choices that disregard the encouragement of God, through Christ and other anointed leaders, they are still loved. You might see something like eternal families as a negative in the eternal perspective because that means some will not have their families with them; however, you disregard two primary beliefs: there are many others in these kingdoms; and these kingdoms are more glorious than the Earth we are now living in. If you decide you disagree with this theology, it makes no difference to us… We believe it still exists. Also, your arguments presented (Suzanne and David) both contain fallacies. Suzanne is taking the context of the post and conforming it to her own opinion. It mentions a comparison of the Church’s common views vs. the social stigmas placed on the Church. Her argument presents the idea that eternal families are bad… And that is about it. She doesn’t understand the principles of agency or justice. The author is clarifying our belief in both, and that they are not as the world, and David, has chosen to interpret them. David… You seem to be much more intelligent than your post proves you to be. My response to your post is found above in the doctrine that degrees of glory are better than what we are experiencing here. I think your biggest issue is you have never really experienced Hell… Which would just make you ignorant (not in the derogatory definition, rather the literal); hence, your personal need to experience life truly, rather than rationalize it, must first come to pass before you can really understand what you’re attempting to talk about.

          • Drew

            I had this reaction too. ‘Angry’? I’m surprised how loud some things sound to apostates, critiques, and non believers. Seems very fragile to me. i.e. offended by the temple ceremony? Offended by baptisms for the dead? etc.

        • Travis

          Outer darkness isn’t a kingdom of glory at all, for there is no glory found there. The author is simply stating that everyone, but those who choose outer darkness, receives a kingdom of glory. There are laws established for each kingdom and we must choose to abide by the laws of the kingdom we ultimately end up in. We damn ourselves and I’m confident when the day of judgment arrives nobody will dispute that fact. Rather, we’ll truly see that Heavenly Father is liberal in his extension of love and mercy.

        • Cheri

          Those that don’t make it to the celestial kingdom will still receive a degree of glory. We are told that all the degrees are glorious are beautiful. They are definitely not like a hell. We will receive the degree of Glory that we earn in this life. All will be saved and all will receive a degree of glory.

          • kevin

            being without my family would be hell thank god the bible I believe in say God created all men equal so in that alone there would be no levels thus keeping the equality of all that believe that Christ paid for our sins on the cross and no man cometh unto the father but through him and even the bible states it is the only true word of god and the road to glory is right there in black and white the way I am seeing what the Mormons believe is everyone is good and we can just be okay that is fine the bible also states we are to be Christ like and even told the robber on the cross he will see him in heaven but nothing about levels.

        • anonymous

          David, the rest of the Christian world doesn’t have a family-based idea of Heaven. Their marriages are “until death do you part” and not eternal. According to mainstream Christianity’s misunderstanding of Christ’s teachings, they think that everyone is single in Heaven anyway.

          They may think that we’ll all be “one big family” in one big Heaven or something, but their teachings don’t support the idea of families like we have now being eternal, sealed by priesthood authority.

        • Salem

          I think we can look at the degrees of glory as being more than what we can even imagine. There are plenty of gospel references to the fact that God has created a plan whereby He will succeed in helping all of His children attain whichever kingdom will make them the most happy.

          God is too merciful & loving & wonderful to do anything less than this. I’m pretty sure the beauty of it all is too great for us to even understand. I would contend than even many devout mormons don’t understand this concept very well. Yes, God wants us to reach for the highest degree because He created us with infinite potential, BUT He is ultimately a fan of freedom & agency so He allows us to choose for ourselves. Even the lowest kingdom is quite a paradise compared to how we live now.

    • Shellie

      Like James said, do the very best you can to live up to those standards and then let God take care of the rest. Christ’s atonement makes up for our short comings but only IF we do our very best. If we aren’t doing ALL WE CAN then God wont reward us. If one is indifferent about how they live their life, after knowing, through the Spirit, of the truth and knowing what they are supposed to do, then of course God will not reward us with such blessings. I can not judge and pretend to know whether you are living up to Gods standards or not, but if you are then have faith that God will take care of the rest, my friend.

      • Paul

        Shellie,

        Brad Wilcox gave one of the best talks I’ve ever heard entitled “His Grace is Sufficient.” This talk given at BYU talks about this very subject and would be great to watch or listen to in regards to this subject. It opened my eyes more fully to understanding the Grace of Jesus Christ. You can find it at the following link: http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=1966&view=2

      • Veronica

        I like your words….Here is my take. All we have to do is live a good life. Treat others as you would want to be treated. Would you do that even if there was no God and glories in the end.
        I have been a LDS for 38 years, a convert. Long ago I gave up debating with those that don’t believe or don’t want to believe what I do.

        All, that really matters is how we treat each other. One day it dawned on me. What if all I believed was a lie? hmmm…What have I really lost? Nothing, I lived in away that I could leave this earth with of feeling shame or guilt. The END or the Beginning.

        If you believe LDS members are weird and wrong, ok..so what. NEXT…move on. If in the end we are right for believing what we do, Oh well…. ;0)
        In the end, if there is a God and we do have a Savior, this I am sure, their love is great than u and I can ever comprehend. And, in the end they will know what is in our hearts and they will bless us accordingly. Of this I am 100 % sure. Any confusion will be all sorted out.
        So, I will live my life in a way that I set good examples to my family and will live in a way that I feel good about how I lived on earth.
        I am a Mom, Nana, Christian and Veteran and so far so good……lol NOT perfect by no means. But, doing my best to live a good, caring life.

    • Jeremy

      I have a large extended family, all raised in the church. There are a few of us who have chosen to live differently than the church teaches. I know enough about their situations to know that I know no hard and fast answers to the questions of where they will end up after this life. They are not bad people. To someone in their lives, they are the best of people. They have opportunity to repent in this life. If they don’t, none of us in their extended family will be able to judge them. The only person who ever lived capable of doing that is Jesus Christ. He is capable because he lived a perfect life without sin, yet suffered every sickness, handicap, sorrow, guilt, and every other unpleasant thing man has or will ever suffer. He was capable of doing that because He is literally Heavenly Father’s Begotten Son.

      Even after this life, I’ve never heard any credible hard and fast answer to the question of whether or not we’ll be able to repent, only postulation. As far as the people who have never had an opportunity to know of Christ and accept His truths, I don’t know that it is possible for all people to be given the opportunity to accept Christ, even with all the advancements in communication around the world. There is this rather large period of time called the millennium which is sufficiently long, especially given that Christ will reign on the Earth, to accomplish the work of redeeming all mankind who choose to be redeemed, living or dead. I’d call that concept plenty liberal compared to most other religions, especially considering how many religions believe babies who die before baptism are eternally damned, or that our just God wouldn’t provide an allowance for people who never have an opportunity to to be saved while they are alive.

      True, we’ll not be able to perform the final judgement, but also true that those who work to prepare for that day all their lives will live more happily than those who chose to wallow in uncertainty and inaction toward that end.

      • Salem

        I would like to think that even after we die that we can continue to repent. I say that because I see repentance as a part of the process of progression and our job here is to merely get on that path & “endure to the end” (end of our mortal lives). I would suppose that God allows more than many of us would assume He does. I also suppose that it is not in His interest to tell us just how liberal He is simply because He understands our mortal nature & if we are told that we’ll have other chances, then too many of us will waste the chances here. These are just my thoughts on that.

      • Tracy

        Actually, we DO have a “credible hard and fast answer to the question of whether or not we’ll be able to repent” after this life, and it goes even further to the “liberal” point Greg originally made. D&C 138 58-59 says, “The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God. And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.” Another indication that a loving Father is going to allow us every opportunity, with as much light and knowledge as possible, to choose to follow His teachings–and reap the wonderful rewards of those choices.

        • sarah

          Thank you very much for that comment. Ix had been looking forr somethig similar as I scrolled through.
          I just want to emphasize that one key part of the doctrine of the LDS church is saving ordinances for the dead. That is a huge part of our sacred temple work. We believe that (as written in 1 corinthians many times as well as in 1 peter 4:6 and throughout all of our scripture) people can perform the necessary ordinances to enter even the highest degree of glory for those who have passed on without them.
          This life is not the beginning, and it won’t be the end either. There will be an opportunity for all of us, saints and heathens and everyone else alike to repent and progress in the life to come. We can all still make it to the celestial kingdom, but don’t think I am pardoning works. Remember in the new testament the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. (I highly recommend “The Laborers in the Vineyard” by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland from April of 2012 in general conference)
          The Lord beckons to us all the day long, and He knows and understands us perfectly. He has a plan for us, and we know that if we strive to do the best we can, everything will work out for our benefit in the end.

          • sarah

            Sorry for any type Os, this keyboard is a little small.

            Thank you so much, greg, for such an enlightening article. I highly appreciated it and I loved the way you explained it.

    • Kami

      Suzanne, I don’t know if you’ll ever read this comment, but I think you’re mistaken. I’ve talked to several of my Evangelical friends (who, I guess by Mormon standards, would end up in the Terrestrial kingdom) and honestly, it sounds exactly like their version of Heaven – they basically want to be with Jesus and sing his praises. And it just so happens they’ll have exactly that in that particular kingdom. They have no desire for eternal increase or to become like God (in the way Mormons desire to become like God) so the idea of the Celestial Kingdom is somewhat overwhelming and almost blasphemous to them. There are days when I think the idea of the Celestial Kingdom is overwhelming. Too much responsibility – do I really want that?!

      Same thing goes for people who will receive a Telestial glory. It’s their Nirvana. It’s still a degree of GLORY. They have no interest in Christ. They don’t receive Him. They will be perfectly happy and don’t feel like they’re missing out on anything. I think it’s kind of a wonderful theology … everyone gets what they desire.

      We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

      Not everyone wants the Mormon Heaven. I wouldn’t dream of forcing that kind of responsibility on people.

      • Mel

        Kami,

        Thank you for making this clear for everyone. It is exactly the message I hoped would be shared.

        I remember the jist of a comment made by a Methodist friend of my Father. He said, “If Methodists are right and I become a Mormon, I go to hell. But, if I stay a Methodist and Methodists are right, I go to Heaven… and to boot, if Mormons are right… I also go to Heaven. So, I think I’ll stay a Methodist.”

        I chuckle every time I recall him saying that… but, he has a point. Where he misses the mark is if he wants MORE than a Methodist Heaven. And frankly Grace and Justice will prevail.

      • Sharon

        The Mormon doctrine teaches that even after we die and leave this earth that our learning will never stop. Do you think that when we die that we are going to be the same for eternity? Of course it would be overwhelming to take on the responsibility of a God in this life but in the next, it may take a zillion years, but it’s at least possible and something to look forward to by some. God doesn’t say that we can only learn so much and then learning is stopped. That doesn’t make sense. In other words, we can eventually learn everything that God can teach us and become like him.

      • T

        Kami – I feel like that myself sometimes. The responsibility seems too much and I feel sort of like I just can’t be bothered! But when I feel inspired, it’s completely different. I think that the reason we feel like that at times is because we’re not yet celestial people – not ready for it all yet. We’re still travelling. At those inspired times when I seem to understand it all more, I can see that it’s the only thing that will satisfy my deeper desires – I can’t imagine the awful frustration that would come from only being able to get to a mediocre point throughout eternity – not getting to emulate my Father, not reaching my greatest potential. I imagine the loss that would be. I think it is truly more wonderful and continuously fulfilling than we can dare imagine. And I love that.
        It comes back to one of the biggest reasons that many Christians call the LDS doctrine of becoming like God blasphemy (even though it’s discussed in the Bible), and why it’s hugely overwhelming to us – it’s the responsibility it entails: we have to live consciously. This doctrine doesn’t allow us to rest in mediocrity, or to allow others to do the hard work of life while we sit on the sidelines. It means we have to care, and love, and get down into the deepest, most difficult parts of our nature; it means we have to give ourselves over to Christ completely. It’s both wonderful and terrifying. Of course we’re scared and overwhelmed by the prospect.

      • Miranda Jenson

        I look at it this way: We have the choice and opportunity to decide how and where we would be the most comfortable. If you aren’t comfortable with living for eternity in God’s presence, why would God put us there? Remember- God’s plan is to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man. He has already put that into place with the atonement and resurrection. We are all saved because of this sacrifice.

        Because of our agency, we can choose how we live, what we do in this life (for the most part) and how involved we want to be with God. If you have never been comfortable talking with God in this life, how are you going to do it after death? If you are more comfortable dealing with angels and a few other spiritual beings than dealing with God Himself, then we will be in a place where that idea of heaven is available. If we would rather be with Christ, but are still not comfy with God, then we will be in a place that we will experience that. If we truly want to be with God, we will have to prove that we do by following the commandments and making the covenants that will afford us that opportunity. Nothing is going to stop us from obtaining what we want except ourselves. We are the ones who decide our fate. Christ is the one that will enforce that choice.

        I don’t believe we will ever stop learning. I just think that some of us need more time and more opportunity to learn the things we need to know. Who knows.. we may be able to keep advancing in the eternities. I do believe it is up to us to decide how much we want to progress. No one, except maybe God and Christ, will know how they will feel after death.

        It’s great that we get the choice to continue learning and growing even after our time on earth is over! To me, there is no greater love than knowing that our Father in Heaven wants us all to have that opportunity!

    • Eric

      ” This theology proposes to bring families together but really it tears families apart” is so wrong. the theology is correct as explained…people tear families apart via pride, lack of faith, lack of understanding or compassion. Read the theology again as explained above. If a family is torn apart it is not because of the doctrine but the miss application of someones interpretation of that doctrine.

    • Luke

      To my understanding, the 3 degrees of glory are not different place but all in the same place. You are granted your glory and will be able to go or see things acc

    • frgough

      All of which anyone is capable of doing with sufficient desire. So, it’s not really an issue for people who want it badly enough.

    • Anne

      So my response to this comment is. I was born and raised in the gospel and have done all I can to constantly strive to live the teachings and strive for the highest kingdom. I also married in the temple, kept my commandment up to this point, BUT my spouse chose to break all commandments and get excommunicated. I don’t have a spouse and at this point am scared to try a second time, So to my understanding I cant make it to the highest level of the Celestial kingdom because I don’t have a spouse? How can that be right?

  4. Brad

    This is oversimplified and explained in a way that fits your agenda but misses the mark on LDS doctrine. ‘Saved’ in the contemporary Christian sense doesn’t just mean resurrected, it means forgiven of your sins. So, no. Not everyone is ‘saved.’ LDS scripture is very explicit when saying which parts of the atonement apply to everyone and which parts only apply to the repentant.

    That is not liberal philosophy or liberal theology. You aren’t at fault for having a mortal body, so you are given an immortal one through the resurrection. Forgiveness of sin comes according to your works (plus the grace of the Atonement, which is applied judiciously and equitably to all who meet the requirements) and you end up receiving exactly what you deserved. It doesn’t get more conservative than that. If you want to live with God. Go do His work and change yourself for the better.

    This “God saves everyone!” bologna is not what the Church teaches.

    • Joshua

      Just what I wanted to say Brad. Think you. I have never heard that Joseph Smith quote and it has no source listed. I call false D.

          • Eric k Hyde

            Yes & yes. Yes, all will be saved. And Yes Henrique is right. I like the background photo on the blog being what looks like T-ball because it brings to mind a flaw in much of the modern thinking. We must not forget, that even though this sounds like we are all going to get a T-ball trophy at the end of life, that is not what Greg is saying. We will get a “get out of Hell free” card in that we will be saved, but we will not all receive a “get into the Celestial Kingdom free” card and receive exaltation. That comes with effort and then when we show all we can do our shortcoming will be covered by the grace and glory of the atonement of Christ. However, if you combine Greg’s description of our Father’s plan with a finding from the Pew Research Center that found it was Mormons who were the most likely of all religions in the US to believe their friends were going to go to heaven then you will see more clearly into the mind of a Mormon. We are not about exclusion, but believe we are all part of our Heavenly Father’s family.

    • Jay

      The beauty of the Atonement is
      not that we “get what we deserve” the beauty is that we get what we dont deserve. We get what we truly desire, even though we will never deserve it. We are, all of us, “unprofitable servants”.

  5. Gloria

    Thank you for your explanation. I am glad for the repentance process. I know those that refuse to repent will not enjoy the third degree of glory. It’s a shame.

  6. David

    Great stuff and something I have been saying for years. Brad is missing the point. You are talking about being saved nit exalted. You are precisely referring to being saved in the litteral sense and we all will be. Now, Brad, exaltation is up to us to obtain. But this post is about being saved, not exalted. Bravo.

  7. Kira

    The Mormon church is a mental prison. Throwing that petty doctrine in the garbage was the most liberating thing I’ve ever done, and the world looks better every day since. I love it.

    I know a lot of people have fear of losing their community and facing their still-religious families, but the ex-mormon communities are thriving and your family will come around. In fact I think I’m even closer to my family since I left the church. It’s all about being yourself and loving everyone for who they are.

    • D. Christian Markham

      “Throwing that petty doctrine in the garbage was the most liberating thing I’ve ever done.” Are you through with the LDS Church or with anything about Christ altogether? Loving everyone for who they are is quintessentially Christ, whether or not LDS members, leaders, or anyone on this earth professing belief in Christ and His teachings actually practice that. Glad to hear that you have not thrown away this practice, but sad to read your venomous attitude towards a theological doctrine which embraces such at its core (again, whether or not even a majority of the LDS members/leaders practice or fully comprehend).

    • Rob P.

      I’m sorry but I don’t get how you can say you “threw away” all of the doctrine. You are still online reading and commenting on articles about doctrine. If you miss it, please come back. You are loved and there will always be room for you. Blog articles can never replace the doctrine that the Spirit can teach us. You can still come home, no matter how hard it may seem. You will be accepted, maybe not by individuals, but certainly by the Lord. I’m grateful that my children will have the opportunity to be raised in truth and righteousness.

    • Dave

      Always interesting to hear from those who leave the church but can’t leave the church alone. A commitment to the teachings of Christ is so much more than a mild interest and a “live and let live” philosophy. Christ required total and complete obedience to His Father’s law. When asked repeatedly what it would take for someone to enter the Kingdom of God, the answer was always some form of “Give up everything you have and follow me.” He did not apologize for this command nor did he ridicule those who refused to comply. However, the command remained the same regardless of the actions of the commanded. As we attempt, to what ever degree, to follow the Savior, that statement will resonate through the eternities.

      Your claim of finding liberty in “throwing away the petty doctrine” is refuted by the attitude reflected in your post. No one who truly believed his actions were true and justified would ever waste a second belittling the faith of others. But don’t be concerned, when you have the chance to discuss this with the person who sacrificed all so you could have the power to choose, He will understand your choice.

      • Christine

        “Always interesting to hear from those who leave the church but can’t leave the church alone.” Hmm. When an individual finds an answer, a solution, a path forward, or whatever revelation that leads them into a happier, more satisfying life, it’s not surprising that they may want to share it with others. If they feel that have been trapped or misled before, there might be some anger involved, don’t you think? It’s not a matter or not being able to “leave the church alone.” It’s a reaction to change. Perhaps some will be offended by the anger, but it is understandable. The underlying hope for those who continue to keep tabs on the church after leaving, I believe, is that others might come to a similar understanding someday. Make sense?

        • Anonymous

          Exactly Christine. EXACTLY.

          This is a ridiculous sentence “No one who truly believed his actions were true and justified would ever waste a second belittling the faith of others.” Because Dave does just that in his next sentence. “But don’t be concerned, when you have the chance to discuss this with the person who sacrificed all so you could have the power to choose, He will understand your choice.”

          Kira feels differently. That is her “faith” if you will. It is what she believes to be true. She feels the way that I feel. The way you’re addressing her IS belittling.

        • rt2wshpMyWay

          I agree with Dave (above Christine) & Rob P (below Anon)… Kira Can’t LEAVE the Church or Christ’s members alone, otherwise Kira, would not have even found/looked up Greg & his blog. Sadly, I have a 26 year old Nephew & wife who have left the church, but CAN’T/WON’T leave it alone. All I can do is love them & ask them to respect my beliefs & just agree to disagree & talk about other subjects. I also hope they never need a Priesthood Blessing for their 3 young children :'(

    • janet williams

      I have never thought that I would be separated from my family if we all don’t reach the same degree of exaltation…it is my understanding we can still associate with each other…we will just have different degrees of being able to be in the presence of our Father. I think we will have different things we are doing, the same as I can still associate with and be with people on earth who have more knowledge, etc. but I can’t work on the same things with them, nor am I able to be in the same places they can because of their knowledge…I think those who have obtained a greater degree of the Lord’s attributes will be able to be with me in what I do, but I won’t be able to go with them…sort of like I cant be in a surgery room since I have no knowledge of that and would be of no help…But since we are all saved, we will still exist in a wonderful place and be able to do wonderful things.

    • Salem

      I’m so sorry that your experience in the church felt so damning. Mine has been quite liberating & I feel very blessed that is the case. I’m very glad to hear that you have good relationships with your family even though you don’t share the same views. I agree with the other comment that talks about how you have obviously embraced a true Christian mentality & that is the point. I hope that your wounds associated with the church can heal & you can find peace with it in whatever way suits you best.

  8. Lafe

    “For Latter-day Saints, being “saved” can also mean being saved or delivered from the second death (meaning the final spiritual death) by assurance of a kingdom of glory in the world to come (see 1 Cor. 15:40–42). Just as the Resurrection is universal, we affirm that every person who ever lived upon the face of the earth—except for a very few—is assured of salvation in this sense. “-Dallin H.Oaks, Apostle LDS church
    Reference: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/05/have-you-been-saved?lang=eng

  9. Amy

    I love your article and I love the church! I recently went to a funeral of my former stake president & I learned so much while listening. God’s love goes out to all & Christ’s sacrifice is for every single person who has ever lived and has yet to live. When our time on earth is finished, our Heavenly Father will be waiting with open arms to greet us. It is up to us whether we will run, stroll or meander our way into His loving embrace. If you have questions about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints please do not hesitate…ask. Talk to someone you know who is a member, seek out the missionaries in your area, go to http://www.mormon.org or call 1-888-537-6600 to speak with a missionary over the phone.
    God’s love is for everyone & so is His gospel.

  10. Erika

    Greg, this is an awesome article. I am so grateful for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the atonement in my life. I’m grateful to know that I only can do what I can do and strive every day to be better and my Savior, through His sacrifice and grace, can make up the rest. I’m so grateful for the knowledge of the restored Gospel. I have lived with and without The Gospel. I am much more happy living and striving to keep my covenants. And living with it, brings so much joy to my life. Thank you for being an example to the world and bearing testimony of truths. Keep up the good fight! Miss you!

  11. Randy

    Your intentions are good but I read common misunderstandings:

    Quote: They will be “saved”, but yet will need to pay the price for their own sins making the Atonement of Christ ineffective in their lives.

    Only Christ can pay for our sins. We may suffer for them, but only Christ has paid. The Atonement is always effective in our lives. We don’t earn the Atonement, salvation, or exaltation. He doesn’t make up the rest, He is all of it. Nothing we can do will ever save or exalt us. “After all we can do” is only hope and rely on the merits of Christ to save. That misunderstanding has laid unfortunate guilt and pressure on now former members.

    We go to Church and a do a thousand other things for one purpose, to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (see Elder Bednar’s talk), to prepare us for His presence and inspire us to do good, to be like Him, the natural fruits of having the Spirit.

    Keep writing, Greg.

    • greg

      Consider a few verses: D&C 19:15-19, Hebrews 10:26

      Consider this link from Mormon.org: http://www.mormon.org/faq/atonement-of-christ (See the last paragraph)

      There is no doubt Christ is the only one that can pay for our sins as a mediator because he was the only sinless person. However, Christ is not going to forgive sins for an unrepentant person. Justice is demanded, and it is either the Mediator or the sinner who must pay the price. Correct that he has paid the price already, but if we neglect Him, “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Heb 10:26) We will still be resurrected but the blood of Christ will not be applied to our unrepentant souls. Christ paid so that we do not have to suffer if we would accept him.

      I will have to respectfully disagree about us not being able to do anything to earn exhalation. I understand my works are meaningless without the Atonement but with the Atonement my works are the very essence and reason of my existence and they do impact my eternal life. Every day of my life I am trying to earn the respect of the Savior. “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?” James 2:21

      I’d love to read Elder Bednar’s talk but I don’t see a link provided.

      Grateful for the time you took to read and comment! Love ya

        • greg

          Laura – Thanks for taking the time. I’m not sure how the grace vs works conversation came up but it always finds its way into theological discussions. Let me be really clear about what I believe. I know that I am nothing without the Atonement of Christ. With that sacrifice, nothing that I ever do will matter. But…the fact does remain that Christ asks us to do certain things and if I ignore him, I will not be found worthy of His blessings and gifts. That is as basic as I can state what I believe. Everything I have ever studied, in my mind, supports that understanding. It’s never Grace vs. Works…but Grace and Works. I need both to become all that God wants me to become. I mean…it was stated from the very beginning… “We will prove them herewith to see if they will do whatsoever things they are commanded.” Abr 3:22-25. If I’m to be “proven” then I must need to do something. It doesn’t cheapen what the Savior did for us to work hard to try and become like Him. Elder Holland said,

          “I am convinced that missionary work is not easy because salvation is not a cheap experience. Salvation never was easy. We are The Church of Jesus Christ, this is the truth, and He is our Great Eternal Head. How could we believe it would be easy for us when it was never, ever easy for Him? It seems to me that missionaries and mission leaders have to spend at least a few moments in Gethsemane. Missionaries and mission leaders have to take at least a step or two toward the summit of Calvary.” https://www.lds.org/ensign/2001/03/missionary-work-and-the-atonement?lang=eng

          Just because we “take his yoke upon us” doesn’t mean we can stop pushing forward.

          Anyway, thanks so much for posting.

      • Randy

        Hi Greg

        Here’s Elder Bednar’s talk: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2010/11/receive-the-holy-ghost#listen=audio

        D&C 19 says to me that we will suffer, not pay. Christ’s payment wasn’t only through pain, He was a God, an unblemished lamb sacrificed.

        Heb. 10:26. I willfully sin quite a bit. I find it interesting that the foot note for “willfully” references the Holy Ghost, Unpardonable Sin.

        I whole heatedly believe what we do is important, to make and keep covenants, FHE, etc. We’re not perfect in FHE or filling in empty ancestor spots in our lineage. I drink Red Bulls from time to time. There are a lot of cultural and traditional sins I commit. And I don’t sweat it. I will continually fall short, so at what point are my actions going to be enough for Christ to take up the rest? I probably have children your age, Greg. There are too many stressed out people who live in the guilt of not enough, not good enough. My neighbor has her genealogy done, she bakes bread, her kids are perfect, their dad’s a Bishop.

        So, Elder Bednar’s talk and here’s one video you might enjoy, Greg:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXr9it_pbY

        Best
        Randy

        • greg

          Randy… thanks dude. I really appreciate you taking the time. My point in writing the article was to show that LDS doctrine of salvation is much more liberal, loving, and merciful than most people believe.

      • Kirsten

        If I might add a somewhat different way to look at it. Christ atoned for all our sins whether or not we are repentant. God has forgiven us those sins whether or not we are repentant. As always then, the decision lies with us. Will we chose to ne humble and accept the atonement and forgiveness that has been so lovingly offered us, or, will we deny it? Many will chose to not accept Gods grace whatever their reasons may be. Our ability to be free agents unto ourselves has and always will be as important a gift as the atonement and that is why I believe they are so inseparably intertwined. An all knowing and loving Heavenly Father would never take our choice to follow him or not follow him away from us, but, I believe he will always extend us the arm of mercy even in the eleventh hour. Our eternal happiness will be predicated upon what we have chosen. If we have chosen Christ then we will be eternally happy.

      • JKC

        I also agree with Randy. We repent and obey the commandments because it is the right thing to do, but our repentance and obedience does not cleanse us from sin or earn us forgiveness. Only the atonement of Christ can do that for us. Repentance is the condition of forgiveness, but not the cause. The atonement is the cause. The phrase used again and again throughout the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants is the “conditions of repentance.” The point is is that forgiveness is a gift from not, not a reward that we earn, but unlike the resurrection, which is an unconditional gift, forgiveness is a gift with conditions. What are the conditions? The gospel of repentance, or in other words, the message of the restoration.

        The notion that we can obtain forgiveness by our own suffering is false. We can obtain forgiveness only through Christ. That’s exactly what the Book of Mormon condemns in 2 Nephi 28, where we are told that one of the false teachings to beware of is the idea that we can “sin a little” and that “God will beat us with a few stripes, and we shall be saved.” It is false. Yes, we will suffer if we do not repent, but that suffering does not pay the demands of justice and will not earn us forgiveness. It is only the suffering of Christ that was sufficient to result in redemption.

        • Alex

          I think this is a bunch of semantics. You’re both saying the same thing. I could say my employer offers me a salary on the conditions of me working for it or I could say I earned my salary. Doesn’t change the fact that I don’t get my salary if I don’t work. You don’t get grace unless you repent.

  12. YUN LIN LEE

    it is very true that all things manifest GOD lives ~…n’~Jesus expounds all things from the beginning to the end–……..3 NEPHI 26~@@~

  13. gramyflys

    I liked your article very much and sent it on to my son. I hope he won’t mind me posting his reply.

    “Good article, but tons of false doctrine in the comments. It’s neat that the principles of salvation are laid out in a way that don’t require every person to have a perfect understanding of these concepts. I’m at peace knowing that it’s really ok that many/most/all of us lack a complete understanding of the equitable formula for salvation.

    That being said, here’s one point I hope everyone in my family understands: (except for sons of perdition, which you can effectively rule out) there is no possibility of a person who kept their first estate being “unrepentant” at the time of judgement. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess. If you understand that, then you understand that the ONLY reason why we go around doing “good works” in this life is the same reason why my tiny son likes to take a toothbrush and clumsily brush his lips and face when I’m brushing my teeth in the morning: we love our Father and we want to be like Him.”

    • Taylor Willingham

      No. He was pretty spot on with the doctrine. But, I can understand how most Mormons don’t understand this. Most Mormons understand the doctrine through their Sunday School teacher who knows very little of the doctrine of the Gospel. Pick up a few books and you’ll understand this better: “The Continuous Atonement” by Brad Wilcox or “The Broken Heart”, by Bruce C. Hafen.

    • Pam

      Wonderful analogy with son imitating father brushing his teeth, “we love our Father and we want to be like Him.” I think this sums it up, in my head! from a fellow Christian & non-Morman.

  14. NancyDaily

    I’m on my Nook, and I don’t know how to copy a link, but read or listen to Brad Wilcox’s talk “His Grace is Sufficient”. Simply wonderful! Great article Greg!

  15. kelly

    wonderfully written article. Thanks you for sharing. This gospel and it’s teachings of the atonement have brought me so much happiness in this life!

  16. Becca

    I loved the article, but I’m EXTREMELY impressed by the patient diligence of the author is responding to comments, regardless of their content. You are a prince among men!

  17. Mike Henderson

    Those crazy Trimbles. 🙂
    Seriously, great words. I appreciate the perspective.
    I did want to clarify a few things – I am still a bit muddy on – even as a convert/member.

    – Even the bishop’s son…. I don’t pretend to condemn or judge – and each one is unique – but I understood outer darkeness to be reserved for those who knew Christ and denied him.
    – They will have to atone for their own sins – I understood the atonement to be universal as well. Maybe I am missing something here. Not trying to argue; I simply want to understand better.
    – How about the heathen that grew up never ever hearing the name “Jesus Christ”? Damned? No! Saved! Yes! Why? Because Christ’s resurrection is universal. – I agree the resurrection is universal – but I thought that only assured resurrection for the heathen – that the salvation for the heathen came from the atonement being universal.

    If you could help me out here, I would appreciate it. I do not pretend to know more/better than you. I still struggle with some concepts and interpretations – so be patient with me.

    Thanks,

    Mike

    • greg

      Mike – Thanks for your comments. I hope I can answer a few questions. We’re all converts! 🙂

      1. Outer darkness is reserved for the son’s of perdition. You can only become a son of perdition by committing sin against the Holy Ghost. Very few people respectively are even capable of committing the sin against the Holy Ghost. Spencer W. Kimball wrote the following:”The sin against the Holy Ghost requires such knowledge that it is manifestly impossible for the rank and file to commit such a sin” (The Miracle o Forgiveness, p.123) To even qualify for that sin, you would need to receive a witness that Jesus is the Christ, and then deny Him and fight against Him performing what Paul deems as “crucifying the Son of Man afresh…and put Him to open shame” (Heb 6:6) You would need to “say the sun is not shining in broad daylight”. There is some more doctrine on this but I think you get the point. Just leaving the Church or denying Christ is not the unpardonable sin. It is when you become an enemy to God and you fight against Him and the saints that you place yourself in danger of this sin.

      2. The blood of Christ will not provide a remission of sins for unrepentant sinners. If a person would like to receive a remission of sin, they must accept Christ, repent and be baptized, and endure to the end by repenting and getting better. Christ will judge whether you have loved Him with all your “heart, might, mind, and strength.” If someone chooses not to receive the Savior as their mediator then they must be punished for their own sins. D&C 19:15-19

      Some years ago, President Gordon B. Hinckley told “something of a parable” about “a one room school house in the mountains of Virginia where the boys were so rough no teacher had been able to handle them.

      “Then one day an inexperienced young teacher applied. He was told that every teacher had received an awful beating, but the teacher accepted the risk. The first day of school the teacher asked the boys to establish their own rules and the penalty for breaking the rules. The class came up with 10 rules, which were written on the blackboard. Then the teacher asked, ‘What shall we do with one who breaks the rules?’

      “‘Beat him across the back ten times without his coat on,’ came the response.

      “A day or so later, … the lunch of a big student, named Tom, was stolen. ‘The thief was located—a little hungry fellow, about ten years old.’

      “As Little Jim came up to take his licking, he pleaded to keep his coat on. ‘Take your coat off,’ the teacher said. ‘You helped make the rules!’

      “The boy took off the coat. He had no shirt and revealed a bony little crippled body. As the teacher hesitated with the rod, Big Tom jumped to his feet and volunteered to take the boy’s licking.

      “‘Very well, there is a certain law that one can become a substitute for another. Are you all agreed?’ the teacher asked.

      “After five strokes across Tom’s back, the rod broke. The class was sobbing. ‘Little Jim had reached up and caught Tom with both arms around his neck. “Tom, I’m sorry that I stole your lunch, but I was awful hungry. Tom, I will love you till I die for taking my licking for me! Yes, I will love you forever!”’” 8

      President Hinckley then quoted Isaiah:

      “Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows. …

      “… He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.” 9

      https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/10/the-atonement-our-greatest-hope?lang=eng

      3. The “heathen” or someone that grew up at a time when the name of Christ was nowhere to be found will be taught the gospel in the spirit world. A baptism will be done on their behalf on this earth either in our time or during the millennium. That person will either have the opportunity of accepting or rejecting that baptism. They will also learn about Jesus Christ in much the same way you and I have learned about him. The choice will be laid before them to follow Christ in that world and receive all of the blessings and opportunities that have been promised to us. See 1 Pet 3:18-19, 1 Pet 4:6, and D&C 138

      So grateful for your questions Mike!

      • Daniel

        It is my understanding that outer darkness is not the same as perdition, though many get confused on this point. Alma 40:13-14 gives a pretty good understanding of outer darkness, which is equivalent to spirit prison. Spirit prison and outer darkness are both terms used to reference hell at times. Hell is used in reference to both spirit prison/outer darkness (temporary) and Perdition (after final judgment and permanent), which is why folks get confused. Just trying to help.
        Thanks for the post.

          • Daniel

            Mel, not sure what you’re saying with that article. It only adds to the fact that Perdition and Outer Darkness are often used interchangeably, when in fact they are different. Again, I would refer you, or anyone who confuses the two, to the scriptural description in Alma 40 for a clear understanding.

            This is from the teacher’s manual for the BoM.
            “Divide the class in half. Ask half of the students to study Alma 40:11–12, looking for truths about spirit paradise. Ask the other half to study Alma 40:13–14, looking for truths about spirit prison, which is called “outer darkness” in verse 13. (Note that some members of the Church today view the term “outer darkness” as a description of the final destination of the wicked who are banished to perdition with Satan. However, in Alma 40, the term refers to spirit prison.)”

            I cannot find a scripture where Outer Darkness is used to refer to Perdition. I would appreciate you sharing it if you know of one. Otherwise, please don’t perpetuate the confusion.

  18. Estuardo

    Glad to say that every day many people around the world join the church through the waters of baptism not only because Christ taught the faith without work is dead but because the source of their understanding comes not only through reading the Book of Mormon and listening with an open heart but also through humble prayer. Glad to know the light of Christ illuminated my family when two young men knocked on their Guatemalan house door, claiming to be true messengers of God, they were taught to consult in prayer to the almighty if what they were being taught was true, and miraculously through personal revelation they were baptized in His true church. You see, it wasn’t the missionaries testimonies that convinced them of the legitimacy of the gospel but the spirit of God Himself, because he is real, because Christ lives and His plan of salvation is perfect and presented to everyone, available to those who choose to follow His footsteps in this mortal life in which we are commanded to serve and love one another. I in the name of my redeemer and my savior Jesus Christ testify that His true gospel has been restored, that again we have true prophets upon the face of the earth, that His power meaning His priesthood is conferred to righteous men and that some day we will see him eye to eye and hope that I fulfilled His mission as I took upon myself His sacred name. Sincerely; Estuardo

  19. Clifford Losee

    I have done much meditation on the subject of salvation and have pretty much come to the conclusion that each individual selects the degree of salvation he will attain. Jesus has defined himself as the truth and light of the world. How much of this truth and light we can accept will determine the degree of our salvation. Mathew 22 : 29 is a good scripture (taken out of context) to emphasize this principle. Even though he was referencing marriage, it does describe the magnificent truth of free agency, the most important law of the highest glory. Any glory that a person attains in the infinite realm of salvation is hinged on the principle to act for themselves and not be acted upon.

  20. Jennifer

    Great Job! This is exactly the same point I will always help others try to understand. It is my favorite part about the gospel. The Grace of our Savior has given us immortality. And in any of the degrees we will feel his spirit. It will be glorious! A wonderful reward for accepting the plan and challenge to come to earth. The Atonement is the tool by which we can work at making our will one with His will. The commandments are there to keep us on the path of eternal life – different from immortality in that it is immortality in God’s presence. That’s what the commandments and Atonement are for. I think it’s wonderful that death is not the end of the plan. That after death we can continue to learn and teach and express faith in our Savior’s atonement, making it work in our lives. And anyone who is on the path to the degree of the Sun will not cry foul at this because in their hearts they’ll want everyone there.

    I want my Father there, who is currently making mistakes in his life, he is a good man. I want him to be with me. So I will live my life always uplifting him and reminding him of how much I love him, following the Spirit in our conversations, and I will do anything to help him get there. That is what our Savior did. He would have done anything to help us gain eternal life, and so he has!

    I think people get it wrong when they use the scriptures and this doctrine of “final judgement” as a judgement stick for others. The Lord tells us to not judge. This information, like everything in the scriptures, is to teach about the Savior and by so doing give us knowedge to draw unto him, and to trust him. Because no matter how hard I try, I just cannot see all that he sees. I believe he will balance justice and mercy. I could go on, but I won’t. It’s a beautiful truth and those who disagree should pray about it and give it time to distill in their minds without the ‘black and white’ lines and rules which mankind often imposes on our omnipotent Heavenly Father.

  21. jennifer

    I *highly* recommend the book “Odds Are You’re Going to be Exalted” by Alonza Gaskill. In a short book, it very simply but thoroughly explains how God’s doctrine of salvation and exaltation are far more reaching than we understand. God designed a plan of salvation to not only save but also exalt the vast majority of humankind. It is far more inclusive and liberal than we give Him credit for. If you want your eyes to open to a whole new way of looking at God’s plan for ALL of His children, I encourage you to read it! Because… odds are you’re going to be exalted!

  22. Ray

    One thing lots of people miss when they say that we believe baptism is necessary for exaltation is that we back up that belief by performing baptisms for every person who has lived, ever – now or eventually when the Book of Life is opened and we finally have access to their names. Thus, every single person ever will have access to those ordinances and be able to be judged, by God, exactly as we will be – essentially, by how diligently they strove to live according to the dictates of their own consciences, according to the light and knowledge they possessed in this life.

    We collectively don’t live up to our incredibly theology well enough or fully, and our everyday actions (our “works”) too often don’t reflect it, but the theology really is about as liberal as it gets. The issues isn’t the theology, imo; rather, it is our collective inability to manifest that theology in our lives. I don’t blame others for not recognizing how liberal our theology is; I put the blame for their lack of recognition squarely on us. If we lived our theology in practice more fully, others would understand it better.

  23. Mario

    How do you reconcile the thought, expressed many times on this comment thread, that those who are baptized after they have lived this life, (baptism for the dead) have the possibility of obtaining celestial glory with the verses in section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants?

    D&C 76: 71-75 “And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament. Behold, these are they who died without law; And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.”

    I understand that they are “saved” in a lower kingdom according to LDS theology. Is it truly a just God who would deny exaltation to them because they did not receive “the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.”?

      • Mario

        Are you saying that “they who died without law”, “the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited”, “Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.”, “they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men” and “they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus” is a description of only one type of person, who then ends up in the terrestrial kingdom, and not five types of people who end up in the terrestrial kingdom?

        • greg

          Not sure i understand your question there brother. My aim is not to define or judge who will go into which kingdom. I know that only God can judge us. The basic guidelines found in D&C 76 are about all I know regarding the judgment. Wish I could be of more help.

          • Mario

            Thanks for replying. I see the lack of the possibility of exaltation for the vast majority of humankind, based on what I read in D&C 76, as an indication that LDS theology is far from a “liberal” theology. In terms of “saving”, yes. In terms of fulfilling the possible ‘destiny’ as God’s children, no. It is a part of what led me away from the LDS church in my search for truth. Could I believe in a God who offers exaltation through His “one true church” to, statistically speaking, essentially nobody?

            Certainly there are many religious thoughts that are much more liberal, as you’ve defined it. Hinduism, Buddhism, Universalism of all stripes, to name a few. Even Judaism can be thought of that way. Thanks for providing an open comment section for discussion.

          • greg

            Mario…love ya man! Jenifer posted a book called “Odds are your going to be exalted” below. Check out her post. Thanks for posting your thoughts!

  24. John son of David

    So many comments based upon this brief moment we call our lives, such a naive mortal perspective. It is true, we parent and develop relationships which seem ominous, yet it is only a glimpse of the potential. Those who risk their potential because of pride, derived from mere mortal education, wager the greatest lot. The guiding hand to lead through the philosophies of man is of spiritual nature, few there be that grasp it, and follow. Each one owing an inescapable accountability, whether they remember the conditions upon which they are bound or not.

  25. Tim

    As nice as it is to think of having endless opportunities to turn to God, up to and including learning about salvation in the afterlife, the Bible actually makes it very clear that “It is appointed unto man once to die, but after this face the judgment”. It is also nice to think that there is some way that everyone (except an extreme few) can be saved. However Jesus himself made it abundantly clear “the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it” Matt 7:14. Isaiah 59:2 Clearly says that our sins have separated us from God, Romans 6:23 says that the punishment for those sins is eternal death. Matt 25:46 Jesus says that those who choose not to follow him “will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” The clearest statement in the Bible, and perhaps most relevant Is 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 which tells us that Jesus will deal out retribution to ” to those who ado not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed.” The truth is, that if we can all be saved whether we have faith, or follow Christ, then there was no reason for Jesus to die on the cross. The entire book of Hebrews and much of Romans and Galatians are entirely focused on that very idea. You’re right, it truly is a nice thought that anybody could live their life any way they want and still end up in heaven. It’s certainly a comforting one when thinking about unbelieving friends and family members. But God, all throughout the new testament, makes it very clear that what he requires is relationship. Nothing complicated, just acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice and a decision to be his disciple. “It is appointed unto man once to die, then face judgement”

    • Mel

      John 14:6-7: “Jesus answered, “I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.’ ”

      I’m not sure why it’s considered, “liberal,” to essentially say that Mormons believe that everybody is judged according to their works and that the afterlife is like a race where you can get 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. place according to those works. Why would that be considered liberal? Isn’t that just recycled religion that doesn’t actually have anything to do with Jesus?

      I agree with Tim. All that Jesus requires of his followers is a relationship with Him. It might sound nice to say, “everybody gets a ribbon,” but making Salvation about Jesus plus works means that what Jesus did in sacrificing Himself for our sins wasn’t sufficient… not to mention it says, “the Mormon ribbon is prettier than yours!” (i.e. Mormon salvation is better than just regular old Salvation because it has the added juice of works) and doing that is just really sad.

      • Alex

        I think that these comments misunderstand the doctrine being taught here and are based on the thought-limiting idea that there is a black and white heaven and hell, and that’s it.

        Matt. 7:14 could be referring to celestial glory. After all, if it’s true, Jesus would know about the celestial kingdom and His work would be to get as many people as possible there. Comparatively, there could be few that get there. You are assuming you understand exactly what Jesus meant based on your idea of what heaven is like. It’s like painting a target around the arrow you shot. There is room for this verse to mean something else.

        Isa 59:2 and Romans 6:23 are completely in line with LDS theology. Sins do exactly that unless they are “paid for” (never liked that term) by Christ. Terrestrial and telestial people will be separated from the Father.

        2 Thessalonians may be referring to the destruction of the wicked, which is mentioned in D&C 76. The telestial (i.e. the “wicked”) are those who will be destroyed in the flesh and not around for the Millennium, which is thus in line with 2 Thessalonians.

        This article only teaches that you can do whatever you like and get to heaven if you believe in one heaven and one hell. As many comments state, those in the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms are actually damned. The correct spelling here should perhaps be dammed. There’s too much nasty medieval connotation associated with “damned.” They are dammed, as in they are stopped and can’t grow past a certain limit. They also cannot be in the presence of the Father. Celestial people are with the Father and have no growth limit so they are not dammed/damned. So if “heaven” means being with God the Father then no, this article does not say you can do whatever you want and get there. If heaven means that you will not be in outer darkness burning with shame and hanging out with Satan, then yes, it says you can do almost whatever you want and go to heaven.

        Finally, I can see why people see Mormons “racing” others to 1st place Heaven, but that’s not the case. It’s all about your own personal desires for happiness. You’ll “go” (for lack of a better word) where you want to because you’ll be most happy there. Think of the plan of salvation like a CEO sending a memo to all his employees saying that if they show the moxy he’ll spin off another company for them to CEO. Some will say “Sweet! CEO or bust!” Some will look at the CEO job description and say “I’ll stay here thanks.” Both are happy, both have their “reward.” The scriptures say that each kingdom has different laws, and if you can’t abide the law, then you don’t belong there, and you don’t want to belong there anyway (can’t remember the reference in D&C). So if the celestial law requires you live a Mother Theresa life, how many of us say “sweet” and how many of us say “what else is there?” Not saying that that’s how it is, but it’s just another example.

        Now where does Jesus come into this? He’s at the core. It’s all pointless without Jesus. Without Jesus, you do one little sin and you’re in outer darkness with Satan. Doesn’t matter what you do. With Jesus, you can choose whether or not to repent. When Mel says all that Jesus asks is a relationship with him, I want to know what that means. Is your relationship that He is your Lord? Then you have to do what He says. He rebukes His followers in John 6 why call ye me Lord, and do not what I say? Jesus asks us to repent. That’s how we build a relationship with Him. “If you love me, keep my commandments” from John. When you say all this works + Jesus thing is hocus pocus, it’s all about grace, it’s really you saying that everybody gets a ribbon, isn’t it? It says to me that what we do doesn’t matter, that we can go around heaping whatever sins we want onto the pile for Jesus to pay, like Jesus gave us a charge card with unlimited credit, and we all know that’s wrong. It’s not works+Jesus. It’s works because you can’t have the relationship with Jesus you talk about without being asked to repent, i.e. stop sinning and do good. So I don’t understand how this is an issue for you. Why are good works bad? It just means you have received grace and are trying to not sin any more. There’s no middle ground. If you’re not sinning, you are doing good works. If you’re sinning, you can’t be doing good…unless you just sit there…but then the parable of the talents would suggest that is in itself a sin…I’m sorry it’s just flawed logic and theology to me to say boo to works. Works are evidence of grace. So are you just talking about an over-emphasis on works in sermons? Well, to be clear: Mormons don’t believe in grace getting you 80% and works have to cover the rest. That’s not what Mormons believe, flat out. Good works are just a natural byproduct of having received grace. Or the absense of sinning any more so that grace has erased your sins. If you sin again you have to repent of that and receive grace to cover all of it. Then if you stop sinning you have to be doing good works. Do you see what I mean? Have I kicked this horse to death enough? Let no more Protestants/Evangelicals/whatever ever denounce that Mormons believe that we are works+Jesus. It’s not true!!! (I’m not angry, by the way. Please don’t read that into this.)

        Anyway, I wanted to address this and I hope I’ve given you something to think about.

  26. Norka Carr

    Is it a way to find your post in Spanish? A translator application in your blog? It will be great to be able to post to my friends in South America.
    Thanks great article.

  27. John B

    Enjoyed your comments Greg. Very well stated. As a former Bishop, I have witnessed the power of repentance and the atonement in the lives of those I served. We each need to experience the agony of the Garden in our lives at some point and to some degree or another. I have counseled with those that have and those that have chosen not to and the degree of happiness is amazing.

  28. lisa

    One thing the comments on the remaining degrees of glory being other “hells” reminds me of: The Lord has gloriously provided for missionary work and repentance in the afterlife, making those kingdoms a place to learn, grow,repent, and reclaim the blessings of the Atonement. Thanks for the discussion.

  29. Terrall

    I believe this is the least understood doctrine of the LDS Church, even by our own members. God’s work is “to bring to pass immortality and eternal life of man”. And God is able to do His work. At the end of the day, ALL will be saved in the Kingdom of Heaven and sealed as one eternal family forever – His family. Each of us will take our own path there based upon our decisions and the exercise of our free will. Some of us will take longer, more circuitous paths than others based upon the laws of mercy and justice. But we will all be saved in the end because “every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord” (Philippians 2) and not because we will be coerced to do so but because it shall be revealed that this is in fact the case and we will know that it is the truth. The only exceptions are those who then willfully rebel against Him once the truth of all things has been fully revealed to them. These are they that CANNOT be saved because they choose not to be, in the full knowledge of their decision and “God will force no man to Heaven”. He will respect their free will. He CANNOT save them without their permission.

    In God’s Eternal Plan of Happiness, there are no winners and losers. Just winners. He loves us with a perfect love. We are His children. He is mighty to save. And He is able to do His work.

  30. Russ

    I have really enjoyed reading all your poignant posts, every single one. There were so many wonderful thoughts, questions, answers, and testimonies.

    Thanks to everyone for posting. You have made my day.

    I regard this read as definitely educational and enlightening.

    I love the Savior and all that he does for me.

    “God is Love” he will help us find our destination through love unfeigned. He sent his son to bless our lives and so he has, and will continue blessing our lives for good as we go forth. Our goal is blessing the lives of others. “Faith is an action Verb”

    Liberal, not liberal, is not the question.

    Truth or not truth is the question?

    Study, Faith, Prayer, Ponder, and Applying the Principles the Lord taught us will help us come to feel his presence in our life, yes in this life, and then conjecture moves from wondering to pure knowledge. His presence is manifested through visitations of the Holy Ghost whom is sent to testify to each of us (individually) of him.

    Once we have tasted the fruit it will be good to the taste and we will thirst for it and that will grow and grow and grow until we are filled with his love and compassion for all.

    I’m thankful for the Lord’s tender mercies in my life.

    .

  31. Melissa

    2 thoughts. First of all, as far as liberal beliefs go, have you heard of Buddhism. Secondly, What you describe above is basically a class system.

    • greg

      Very familiar with Buddhism. Actually really like Buddhism. However, my article doesn’t address “beliefs” but specifically the doctrine of salvation and the Mormon understanding of God’s grace and mercy to us in providing a place in which we are comfortable and happy after we die. Also, there are many types of Buddhists. Some focus on different things. Many Buddhists believe that you must escape “Samsara” and attain Nirvana on your own accord without any external help or … a “Savior”. They believe that they should become “a savior” and then try to turn others into “saviors” which gets very interesting in the light of Mormon doctrine. I’ll leave that explanation for another day. 🙂

      As far as a class system…you can call it that if you’d like. However, most people that are born into class systems have done nothing to place themselves into that class. They are either born into poverty or nobility and will remain that way for the rest of their life. They did not choose to be in the class that they reside in but are forced both socially and financially to remain there in that class. Mormon’s believe that the choices you make in this life will dictate where you end up in the next and any place you end up is only possible through the merits and mercy of Christ.

      Thanks for taking the time to read and post here! Grateful for the discussion.

  32. katy

    Thank you for being bold enough to post this and sharing your testimony of the gospel. I have one suggestion: make your scripture references links to the scriptures on lds.org so that even non-members who don’t own The Book of Mormon have easy access to it.
    thanks!

  33. Paul

    What we must take to heart is that we do not have a perfect knowledge. It is said in the scriptures that the gospel is supposed to be simple and bring you happiness. Too often have I seen a complex rat race to be the best and the depression that follows. Too often do I see those with a lot of material wealth with the” Celestial complex” fail to give their excess to those in need. We can say whatever we want on this earth about what happens after we die, but there are no guarantees, just faith that it is true. This life is not a competition, we are not worthy enough to tell others where they will end up, we don’t know these things.

    Love other people, Jesus was the kind of person that would hang out with “scrubby” people that others stoned and persecuted because “they made better choices than the accused.” When we forget about ourselves, we are usually the happiest, psychology proves that fact.

  34. Stephanie

    I would like to express a way that I interpret all of this, in a very humble way. Humble because most of my belief is based on faith. I don’t have the scriptual knowledge of most, but what I do know has been made manifested to me through the Holy Ghost. I do not know of scriptural references or talks to back what I know. And I could be way off subject. But I have read every reply and comment posted thus far. And here is my thought process. ..
    I was relieved to read this blog and really loved how it was put, I recognized it’s truth because I recognized my Shepards voice. I read the replies and many came up with great points and some my heart bled a little for their unbelief. I’ve been there. Feeling enslaved with the responsibilities that I thought were required of me to “pass”. But after a long 16 years I came back, only to realize I traded one set of consequences for another. I eventually was bound by the choices I made outside of living the gospel. Everything has a consequence. At least the consequences of following I find my strengths as well as my weaknesses. And I personally had to find my limits and through Christ recognize that there is strength in knowing them. Christ desires me to be my best…not keep piling on. He knows my heart. He knows where it lies. He is like a personal trainer…he will keep adding one more and maybe one more…it is up to me to say…ok…I’m losing steam…I need a breather. ..he may say, ” one more?” And I give it a try and say…ugh nooooo more. “Okay Steph that’s great, now I know and you know what we’re working with. Let’s do this for awhile and later I’ll show you how much stronger you’ve become. You’ll see. Great job, thanks for communicating with me”
    It’s not that it isn’t enough…but if you are feeling bound then your working out to hard…take a step back. Let Christ hold you for awhile, but please don’t give up.
    Now as far as who goes where and what kingdom. I grew up in an abusive environment created by my father. Abusive physically and emotionally. I will be 44 this year and I still struggle with the insecurities that were developed because of that. A long time ago I forgave my father. I don’t have a close relationship with him because he is still emotionally abusive. However, over my whole life, through him, my grandma, my mother (they are divorced) I have gotten many tidbits of his life and what his childhood life was like and how he grew up. He went through the same as me. This breaks my heart and helped me to forgive him, knowing more of what happened to him. It does not excuse him, he had the similar forks in the roads to choose from as myself. I chose different forks obviously because my children spill over with confidence and security of their love FROM me. But nevertheless, what my father suffered as a child was horrible too. I hope with all my heart that he will eventually find his way to the Celestial Mansion. And I have truly believed he will. If I can forgive him, me…lil ole me, with limited knowledge of the things he went through…then surely the Savior will…Him who absolutely knows all of what he went through and at what point were some of his sins products of circumstances and those of true choice. The difference between me and my father is…he will still have some growing and learning to do before graduating. I on the other hand have chosen to practice what has been taught therefore I will reach a different level because I have progressed here on earth and must continue my education at a higher level. Because when we die, unless we can remember every lil detail and thing we did and then say sorry in our dying breath how can any of us show up without sin on our shirts. But when face to face all will be level and I know I’ll do this facepalm and say..”oh yeah, I’m sorry” and really mean it and maybe because I see a clearer picture. Just like my father will. And then it will be so hard to feel that especially with better understanding. But through the grace of Christ we will then be clean and then judged. And that these mansions are different levels of learning. I don’t really know for sure…I remember being taught we all progress. I truly trust all will be just in the end (of the beginning) especially after the saving Grace of Christ is first applied. I am glad it’s not up to me to decide but I can’t imagine someone like my father who made such cruel choices couldn’t be forgiven when knowing what may have brought him to that point.
    I sure texted a lot. Thanks for everyone’s views. It really got me thinking and I am enjoying the peace from that and the feelings of love from Our Savior.

  35. Stan Spencer

    I like your post, Greg. Like some of the others who have commented, I would differ only in who finally pays for the sins of those who are saved in the Telestial Kingdom.

    There are plenty of scriptures that say salvation comes only through Christ. If this is taken literally, which I think it should be, it would mean that even those who are saved in the Telestial are saved through Christ, which would imply by his atonement/payment for their sins.

    Hebrews 10:26 — according to the footnote on “willfully,” this scripture is speaking of the unpardonable sin, so probably doesn’t apply to our adulterers and whoremongers.

    D&C 19:16-19 talks about suffering for sin, which would apply to the spirits in Hell, but it does not seem to preclude eventual redemption (per D&C 76:85) by Christ [Redeem: “gain or regain possession of (something) in exchange for payment.”]. Just because the spirits in Hell are suffering for their sins, it doesn’t mean they are paying for them. They suffer, but then are “redeemed” at the end (D&C 76:38,85). We suffer for our own sins every day, but that suffering doesn’t get us anywhere — it doesn’t pay the price that must be paid — it’s only Christ who can redeem us.

    I can only speculate, but I think that eons of unimaginable suffering in Hell would be enough to make anyone willing to repent of their sins and accept the atonement of Christ for eventual redemption at the last resurrection.

    Looking forward to more…

    • greg

      Stan – Thanks. Lets talk about this someday. I do believe salvation is only found in and through Christ. No doubt the resurrection of Christ is considered part of that “infinite sacrifice”. We will all take part in that resurrection and be saved to one degree or another. I have always been under the impression that WE must make the atonement effective in our lives or else the blood of Christ will not be applied to our sins. From the Mormon.or website it states that:

      “Jesus Christ did what only He could do in atoning for our sins. To make His Atonement fully effective in our individual lives, we must have faith in Christ, repent of our sins, be baptized and confirmed by one having authority, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, obey God’s commandments, receive sacred ordinances, and strive to become like Him. As we do these things through His Atonement, we can return to live with Him and our Heavenly Father forever.”

      I think about the story of the mediator that I watch over and over for seminary and hear Pres. Packer’s voice in my head speaking about a creditor. If I’m a debtor, and I have a debt to pay, I must pay that creditor until my debt is paid. The “savior” creditor steps in and says, “will you accept me as your creditor”? If I do not accept this new creditor, then I will need to pay the debt to the previous creditor. That creditor is keen on sending me to the judgement whereupon I must pay my debts all on my own.

      It’s a good thing to discuss. Stop me in the hall next time for a friendly doctrinal discussion! 🙂

      • Stan Spencer

        Sure. I’m wrong about half the time so I’ll be happy to dig into the scriptures with you. This may require more than a hallway chat, though. And then there’s that faith-works-grace thing… Mormon theology is still coming to light (or evolving, if you prefer), which makes sense for a Church that believes in continuing revelation, including a “study it out” element. I’m loving those new doctrinal posts at LDS.org.

      • JKC

        I agree with Stan. Of course, no analogy is perfect, but President Packer’s parable actually demonstrates Stan’s point: that “[w]e suffer for our own sins every day, but that suffering doesn’t get us anywhere — it doesn’t pay the price that must be paid — it’s only Christ who can redeem us.” In the parable, the debtor has no money and is going to prison where he is unable to earn money. No matter how much he suffers in prison, he literally cannot pay the debt. In the same way, we will suffer if we refuse to accept Christ’s atonement through sincere repentance, but that suffering will be in vain because it will not repay any debt.

        It will not be in vain to the extent that it causes us to humble ourselves and repent, but in that case, it is still Christ’s atonement, not our own suffering, that is paying the price.

        • Greg Trimble

          That’s because Stan is super smart. I’m blessed to be around him on Sunday’s and two of his daughters every morning for Sunday. I still need to discuss with him… 🙂

    • rt2wshpMyWay

      When my teens were going through Very Dark Times (Most parent’s don’t go through these types of trials from their children) I was on my knees begging the Lord to watch over them & to help me to be strong, forgiving & hopeful. There Was ONLY ONE place besides the Lord where I went for comfort; I sought out scriptures but found little comfort if my children Did Not repent, I sought out ever book/teaching & finally found ONE that could calm my soul: The King Follett Discourse, a sermon given by Joseph Smith at his dear friend King Follett’s funeral.

      I finally had to come to terms that “God Will Force No Man To Heaven” & that as MUCH as I desired my children the blessing of the Celestial Kingdom, If they did NOT Repent & Obey the commandments of Heavenly Father, they would dwell in Lesser Kingdoms, that was a HARD DOCTRINE, one so hard, I can understand why a false traditions sprang up with death bed repentance & One Heaven became popular teachings. The understanding of the 3 Degrees of Glory, is one of the major differences that distinguishes the LDS Church with other religions of the world. It is based not ONLY on the grace of Christ but on ones Faith (actions) as well.

      There would be NO difference between the LDS church & other Christian denominations if we taught that everyone will be able to attain a Celestial Glory no matter what they did, without going through the repentance process.

  36. McKay Hugentobler

    I am a bishop in the church currently and my thoughts on this have no more validity than any others mentioned here. However I have had the opportunity to visit with many who feel they have let themselves and the savior down by their choices. I am most saddened when these good people fail to feel good about their relationship with Jesus Christ. The scriptures say that life eternal is knowing the true and living God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. Every other doctrine is an appendage to this one. In the process of life I hope that these people find God and come to know him and His son. In coming to know Christ we have to believe in his saving power from death(spiritual and physical) and the power of His atonement to heal our spiritual sickness here and now. I love God, and am thankful for the Savior.
    I would add that Christ’s sacrifice doesn’t make up the difference AFTER we do our best, but that it makes ALL the difference and he only asks that we love Him and follow his teachings and all that that entails.

  37. Heidi

    This is really put well. I know that God loves all his children, always, and that agency is the biggest part of his plan for us. He’ll never make us go anywhere we don’t want to go, or do anything we don’t want to do. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t extra blessings for doing His will and for following his commandments. I know that in this life and in the next, before a final judgement by the Savior is pronounced, He will continue to reach out to us and teach us His will and if, in the end, we still do not accept it, or don’t want to follow His commandments, then He will put us where we will feel most comfortable with our decisions. If you truly want what His will for us is, and try with all your heart, He will know it and help you achieve your greatest potential. It’s wonderful believing in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God.

  38. Glade Smith

    I am consistently learning so much and love that I can grow and change.

    As I read through your posts I had a few thoughts.

    1. The word commandment means that we are to “do” something. We have been commanded to do and not do many things. We are commanded to work. The discussion of works has be covered in the comments so I will not say any more about this.

    2. The first and great commandment is to love GOD. To me, it means that I respect who he is and what he has done for me. It means that I honor him. I need his word. I need his direction. I need his spirit. I need him. I do not want to do things that separate myself from him. Loving everyone else is the second commandment, but we all need to work harder at doing the first.

    3. The Savior who came to be an example for us loved all. He dwelt with the sinners. He was chastised for doing so. He never accepted sin. He came to heal or change man. It is so hard to hear that what we are doing is wrong. It sounds so harsh, especially in our world today. Words of hell and heaven, fire and brimstone are his words. Harsh and hard to hear. Those are his words. We WILL be judged.

    4. We are given the ability to choose. He gave us the ability to repent. We get to choose on our own. He will not force us.

    5. Not all who say “Lord, Lord” are his. They can draw close to him with their lips, but their hearts are far from him. Even his “followers” can rob him.

    6. I believe his work is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. He has given us every tool to do that. I look to him to be my righteous judge.

    7. He has commanded (do) me to be “perfect”, not “that’s just who I am.” That is my aim. Because I have already sinned, he has made it possible for me to be clean and pure and perfect again. His sacrifice made that possible, not guaranteed. (fire and brimstone)

    8. He has not left us alone. He has not left us without direction. Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.” I am grateful to have a prophet on the earth today to reveal his secrets.

    9. Philippians 4:8 “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” I hope we can be positive and act as the Savior did and Forgive them that do us wrong. He is patient and long suffering and has given us the chance to choose to be like him.

    Thanks for Sharing. My day is better because of your post and comments from readers

  39. Annie

    I came to your blog because it was posted on Facebook by one of my grown daughter’s friends who is Mormon. Although I know a lot about the LDS church (we lived in Pocatello, Idaho for several years…evangelical Christians in a city that was 75% Mormon) I read it to try to understand more about what you all believe and why. As a born again Christian who is in full time ministry, it is hard for me to understand how the Bible has been so distorted and taken out of context. The more you explain, the more I don’t understand why you don’t question these beliefs. The more I read, the more I pray that the Lord would take the blindness of satan off of your spiritual eyes and help you see the real Truth. May God truly have mercy on your souls.

    • Dan Gerous

      Maybe you should try to reconcile all the inconsistencies within the Bible itself before questioning why we don’t take it as literally as you do.

    • rt2wshpMyWay

      Acts 23-24 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

  40. Eric

    You are spot on. Thank you. I read a few of the posts….hmmmm. no need to to comment on most of them if they want to further constrict their own view from what we have been taught by all the prophets past and present is up to them. Our heavenly Father will be liberal with them too.

  41. Barbara carter

    Please just stop knocking on my door. Like all religions, it’s just about the 10 percent tithe and what money you can contribute. It’s always about the money, and how many converts you can get, so you can have more money! Then, after you have the money, you can become political and sway public opinion because you have the most money to pay for lobbyists etc. it’s always about the money, not the salvation of your soul!! No way would I ever send my child into 3rd world countries to try to “convert” when they can be kidnapped, raped, etc. what a ridiculous thought a religion would espouse!

    • greg

      Hi Barbara –

      Thanks for posting. You seem like a nice person so I thought I’d take a second to address your comment. The LDS Church is one of the only Churches on the planet that has no paid ministry. I personally am a seminary teacher in California. It is practically a full time job. I am up at 4am-5am to teach a class and then go to work. I also served a full time mission for my Church. (Yes I was one of those annoying guys knocking at your door that you’re talking about) It was the greatest experience of my life. I did not get paid a dime. In fact, we must pay for it out of our own pockets. I chose to do this on my own with no pressure from my parents. I gave up a baseball scholarship in Hawaii, interest from Major League Baseball scouts, a big black lifted truck, and surfing everyday. I also put off marrying my wife for 2 years whom I was engaged to. I CAN ASSURE YOU…IT WAS NEVER ABOUT THE MONEY. If I wanted to get paid monetarily for “ministering” I would definitely be in the wrong Church. 🙂 Tithing is not a principle that was created by the LDS church. It is mentioned all over the Old and New Testaments.

      I hope your day goes well!

  42. Barbara carter

    I appreciate your comments, however, it is about the money, just like the Catholic Church and others. If you propose having multitudes of children, it only increases your base of money. I happen to know that those who do not have the money to pay for their 10 white shirts and their drab or black suits get reimbursed by the church. I worked for a dept store and have full knowledge of that. Organized religion takes advantage of people and in many instances is beneficial to them. I just object to the premise that you are obligated to pay money to the church , have multitudes of children to increase the flock and therefore increase revenue, and women should be subservient to their husbands. I have a daughter who is a Morman and it has helped her somewhat, but sometimes I think she s brainwashed. I have Morman acquaintances and they re for the most part interesting, but living back in the 50’s.

  43. Archer

    “No other religion that I have ever studied (and I’ve studied a few) is as liberal with salvation as is the Mormon Church”

    You should study Unitarian Universalism.

  44. AT

    That was interesting reading. I have always thought the LDS belief that all people who live on earth will have an opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, and accept it for themselves by covenant and promise (baptism) makes this church the most Christian of all religions. That is what I would expect from a church Christ himself organized and later restored again. Most will not have the opportunity to hear the message or accept it until after they die….they miss the goodness of living the gospel on earth. The most fortunate have an opportunity to accept and live the Gospel on earth and enjoy the knowledge, faith and its blessings.

    Having lived in Africa among millions that have never heard the name Jesus Christ, would they be missed, or much worse, condemned? Of course this concerned me. This the only possible solution to requiring the covenant of baptism. You used the term Liberal, I prefer Christian. That is what Jesus intended. With his missionary work in the spirit world he showed us that all will have an opportunity to hear and accept his gospel and atonement. (1 Cor 15:29, 1 Pet 3:18-20, 1 Pet 4:6)

    This does however create a problem that the church is busily working on….how are we to baptize in the name of all the billions who died without knowledge of Christ. (1 Cor 15:29)

    I have faith that names will come to our minds during the millennium, any other suggestions? Are we really to live out our years researching and indexing only to come up a few billion short? Your thoughts?

    • Steven

      I have seen it said that the angels would come to Earth bearing records of each individual since Adam for us to do work for them. If this is correct, then we won’t be doing any family history work during the Millennium 🙁

  45. Eugene Carbine

    Greg,
    I enjoyed your post and have read all the comments. I have struggled for years trying to understand the relatioship between faith and works, and a few years ago finally found the scripture that to me explains the whole thing.
    One day I was reading in Alma 5. I know I had read that scripture many time before in both English and Spanish, but that day it finally made sense.
    Verses 41 and 42 tell us that through works of righteousness we will recognize the Savior’s voice and we will follow him. If we accept him and follow him, he will be able to save us. If we don’t, even though he loves us he will not be able to save us in our sins.
    If I am understanding those verses, our works don’t save us, but they keep us on the right path and enable us to recognize and follow the Savior and he then saves us through his grace. Works in and of themselves will not bring us back to God, but will facilitate our ability to recognize and follow Christ back to Him.

  46. Elder Brother-thumb

    Great article. I think a lot of folks miss how merciful the plan is because we fail to define terms. If you look at the respective “lifestyles” found in the eternities purposed by Mormon doctrine, you’ll be hard pressed to find a more generous world view of Deity.

  47. Mike

    Universal salvation was a common belief in the days of Hoseph Smith held by “universalists.” Asael Smith, Joseph’s grandfather professed this religion and discouraged his family from joining an organized religion of any kind. Universalism, as can easily be seen, influenced many of Joseph Smith’s ideas but to say that Mormons are the only one who believe in this mode of salvation is a little bit ignorant.

  48. Oliver

    Okay, I get what you’re saying and there’s nothing here that isn’t really true but even so, to say that this makes Mormon theology liberal politically is just a bit too much of a stretch for me. If you want to respond that this isn’t about politics then why would you bring politics up in the beginning anyway? Yes, our Heavenly Father is very liberal in that he gives freely or “liberally” to his children and forgives a lot more than I’m sure we realize but modern political liberalism is about a whole lot more. For example, modern liberalism downplays and even degrades the Founding Fathers and the Constitution as it was originally written yet Mormon theology also claims that the Founding Fathers were inspired and led by God and that the Constitution was a divinely inspired document. Likewise, liberalism leans heavily in a large government direction, even so far as favoring models using varying degrees of socialism. Mormon theology leans heavily in a direction of smaller government and increased individual liberty and responsibility. The references to where this principle is taught in scripture, words of past and present general authorities, church history, etc. and too numerous to quote here. I could go on and on. My point is that if you are simply trying to make the point that our theology on the Plan of Salvation is more accepting and therefore technically more “liberal” than other churches then fine, I’m right there with you. If you’re somehow trying to make the case that Mormon theology is actually more politically liberal than politically conservative, you simply couldn’t be more wrong.

  49. sansku

    Exactly! The worst sinners even get a telestial kingdom which is “glorious beyond all understanding”. I have a Muslim friend and one time she explained to me how after life will be torture to all those who aren’t Muslim. I asked her how on earth can she believe in such doctrine. We both have gorgeous little girls and I asked her that just because our daughter happened to be born into a Mormon family and hence most likely will never become a Muslim, so that means that she will be tortured for eternities? How can anyone believe in a God like that? She tried to defend it by saying that Christians believe that too and I said that they are wrong too. I love it that we have the fullness of the gospel and understand these things. God is LOVE. We are His children. There is no way He would make someone suffer eternally just because they weren’t certain religion. And yes, it’s ironic that people see us as being narrow minded etc, yet we are the most liberal and non judging.

  50. sansku

    From the D&C study manual:

    D&C 76:89–106. Why Will Those Who Inherit the Telestial Kingdom Receive a Glory That “Surpasses All Understanding”?

    All who receive the telestial kingdom will have paid a price for this glory. The fact that after they pay this price they inherit a telestial glory is evidence of the Father’s love and mercy. Elder John A. Widtsoe wrote:

    “The [Doctrine and Covenants] explains clearly that the lowest glory to which man is assigned is so glorious as to be beyond the understanding of man. It is a doctrine fundamental in Mormonism that the meanest sinner, in the final judgment, will receive a glory which is beyond human understanding, which is so great that we are unable to describe it adequately. Those who do well will receive an even more glorious place. Those who dwell in the lower may look wistfully to the higher as we do here. The hell on the other side will be felt in some such way.

    “The Gospel is a gospel of tremendous love. Love is at the bottom of it. The meanest child is loved so dearly that his reward will be beyond the understanding of mortal man.”

    <3

  51. Modus

    “Mormons by and large are striving to attain the “glory of the sun”, or the “third” heaven spoken of by Paul. In doing so, they claim no exclusivity on this degree of glory.”

    What do you mean “they claim no exclusivity”? The only way you can attain the Celestial Kingdom is to be a Mormon. That sounds pretty exclusive to me.

    • LK

      Why the Devil’s Advocate with the play on words? The statement correctly reflects Mormon beliefs. Case in point – Adam and Eve were not “Mormons” but are rewarded Celestial Glory! Titles do not get one there. Faith evidenced by works does!

    • alex

      If you find a place, institution or other way to fulfill all the ordinances needed to obtain this glory it would be interesting to know. We give the same opportunity to all God’s Children to receive this blessings.

  52. Kimberly

    Thank you for this post! In spite of what some of your commenters have argued, I think it was spot on. One of the best articles on our faith that I’ve read in a long time.

  53. Oliva

    Thanks for the wonderful article. Just a quick question though! Jesus replied to the Saducees that in the ressurrection the seven brothers who were married to one woman and the woman will become angels. Which kingdom or degree of glory will be given to them?

    • Miranda Jenson

      It’s all up to them which kingdom they receive. If they accept Christ and follow His commandments, they have every chance as anyone else does of receiving the highest glory. It’s really their choice.

  54. Ron

    Excellent article. The doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints teaches that everyone has free agency. No one, not even our Heavenly Father can take that away from us. So if every one has the freedom to do anything they chose then that would be very liberal indeed. We should make laws preventing people from taking away the rights of others but never restrict the rights or free agency from anyone. The term of liberal is not used correctly in the media when it comes to politics. The Democrats are not liberal at all. They create laws that restrict our freedoms and free agency.

  55. Sarah

    I enjoyed this very much! You’re writing is superb! I’m *attempting* to share awesome truths like this on my blog as well, but I’m no where as good at it as you are! Keep the awesome missionary posts up!

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